While occasionally I'm happy to just beat the snot out of a bunch of monsters, I'm more likely to get bored in battles. Everything gets so long and dragged out that even though it's only been 6 seconds of game time since i (just for example) got into position to sneak attack a guy, he's moved out of range and been hit by 5 other people.

I was in a very long running group - 7-8 years - which stopped playing Shadowrun for exactly that reason. There was a firefight that lasted 10 seconds gametime, and took us 3 hours to roll up. SR2 rules were incomprehensible - and a lot of these guys were Harvard grads. We switched back to D&D - simple, maybe a bit unrealistic - but easy.

While occasionally I'm happy to just beat the snot out of a bunch of monsters, I'm more likely to get bored in battles. Everything gets so long and dragged out that even though it's only been 6 seconds of game time since i (just for example) got into position to sneak attack a guy, he's moved out of range and been hit by 5 other people.

I was in a very long running group - 7-8 years - which stopped playing Shadowrun for exactly that reason. There was a firefight that lasted 10 seconds gametime, and took us 3 hours to roll up. SR2 rules were incomprehensible - and a lot of these guys were Harvard grads. We switched back to D&D - simple, maybe a bit unrealistic - but easy.

I've been told I'd be good at Shadowrun because I'd meticulously figure out how to allot things to squeeze the most out of it.

I've been told I'd be good at Shadowrun because I'd meticulously figure out how to allot things to squeeze the most out of it.

One of the great things about SR is that its extremely tweakable. You dont have 'class restrictions' per se. If you want a mage with cyberware, you can have a mage with cyberware. You'll get penalites, but the point is, you can do it. Anything you can think of is possible. Dwarven Pawnee Combat Biker. Combat Mage. Confederate sniper/drug dealer/pimp. Gadgeteer with a blimp.

You might also like Battletech (where my avy comes from) - its tabletop warfare, but part of the joy of BT is the design of your mech. There are surprisingly complex engineering rules which allow you to design a wide variety of 'mechs, depending on what you want it for, and your own philosophy of 'mech warfare.

"What the hell IS the 'Original Plan'?
Its simple. The Original Plan is 'get into as much trouble as possible, then shoot your way out.'"
-Grendel and Silverhammer, Shadowrun

What is your favorite frpg to play?

I play a lot of D&D, but also enjoy Star Wars (D20) and GURPS (especially the AutoDuel setting, what better way to take out your stress and road rage out than with twin machine guns and vehicle mounted flame throwers). I also have been waiting for a chance to play in or run the D20 Lone Wolf setting.

What type of character do you like to play?

I usually like to play robust characters that are not pigeon holed into a specific role. Additionally I tend to play characters that march to the beat of their own drum and tend not to always lead but not to follow either.

What type of game play do you like?

I prefer a game that is a mix of hack and slash with puzzles and challenges (like those in the book of challenges, not the sort of puzzle that is virtually impossible to figure out).

What kind of DM/Gamemaster do you like?

Above all, my preference for a GM is one that realizes that they are not playing against the players rather that they are providing a service to the players and moderating the environment.

Above all, my preference for a GM is one that realizes that they are not playing against the players rather that they are providing a service to the players and moderating the environment.

I'm with you on this one. D&D is not a screw-your-neighbor game. Unless everyone is playing evil characters, in which case, they might as well just screw d&d and pull out Frag.

What is your favorite frpg to play?

I play a lot of World of Darkness and utilizing the setting to tell deep and intersting storylines. I love this due to the fact it is very open to allowing the Game Master to set the stage and have the freedom to tell his own story. The rules are very easy you use a d10 and your done! What is a huge draw for me is it is VERY roleplay and storyline driven and as somebody who loves to write its perfect.

What type of character do you like to play?

I usually like to Game Mster more then be a player. However when the rare game comes along that I want to play in I guess if you put me in a catogory I prefure the Rouge\Fighter.

What type of game play do you like?

Well if I am running it you can bet it will have deep plots and stories filled with lots of N.P.C's that I utilize to tell the story. When I am the player I want to get my hands in as many pies as possible, there is nothing worst then being in a game were I sit there for hours.

What kind of DM/Gamemaster do you like?

Above all, my preference for a GM is one that realizes that they are not playing against the players rather they are providing a place for the players to get involed and become part of whatever is going on and be able to inpact the story in some way.

Above all, my preference for a GM is one that realizes that they are not playing against the players rather that they are providing a service to the players and moderating the environment.

I'm with you on this one. D&D is not a screw-your-neighbor game. Unless everyone is playing evil characters, in which case, they might as well just screw d&d and pull out Frag.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you guys on this. Not to say that D&D doesn't - and shouldn't - have cooperative elements between the GM and players, but an adversarial style can really push players (and PCs) to a new level, when done right. And with a balanced set of rules, it's not just an exercise in PC killing, it's a contest of wills (and skills) where the PC group and the GM try to out-think each other. Granted, it's not for everyone, and it's not the style that's popular nowadays, but it's still a perfectly valid method of gameplay.

And, for what it's worth, if I'm "just providing a service," than I should be getting paid. I come to play, not to babysit - the players aren't the only ones who should get to blow off some steam.

One of the main problems with the CR system, BTW, is GMs who won't go at the PCs with everything at their disposal. A monster group with an equal CR to a PC party, when run by a softy GM, is little more than a speedbump that spits out treasure and XP when you hit it; when played by a real screen shark, they can test the party to their limits. (Tucker's kobolds, anyone? Now THAT was a GM who was running on all cylinders!) When you don't use monsters (and NPCs) to the level best of your ability, playing them as smart and as mean as you know how, then you have to throw super high-CR stuff against a party to give them even a hint of a challenge; the artificially high CRs make for inflated XP and treasure, which means you have to throw even more absurd stuff against the party (while pulling your punches so as not to overwhelm them), and the whole thing snowballs.

And I gotta disagree right back. The world isnt adversarial, the world isnt out to get you, and unless the players have done something stupid (like Odyssius pissing off Posidon) the world shouldnt be out to get them either. Unless its Paranoia, which is why Your Friend The Computer has kindly provided you with six clones. Have a great daycycle, Citizen! But in Paranoia thats part of it - seeing how long you can live, seeing how spectacularly you die. Seeing how many of your commie mutant traitor teammates you can kill off first, or take with you.

I've messed with my players - one of my players bought a skillsoft with a virus imbedded in it so that when he used the skillsoft (to fly an aircraft) he...really...really...oh...yeah...liked to...fly the airplane.
Ian hasnt yet forgiven me - which was difficult when I was a player in his campaign.
But the game itself was neutral, I wasnt out to screw them at every turn - the Bads didnt come after the players unless the players attracted them, I didnt fudge dicerolls to make it hard on them or throw the Ancients, an Aztechnology Cyberstrike Team, a hive of Wasp spirits, and the great dragon Lofwyr at them at once.
Just...cybernetically enhanced...velociraptors...

Point is, you're the god of your world when you're the GM, but the players are demigods, and a good gaming group will all create the world - and thats fun for everyone. You fight your players, you get unhappy players.

-Don

And I gotta disagree right back. The world isnt adversarial, the world isnt out to get you, and unless the players have done something stupid (like Odyssius pissing off Posidon) the world shouldnt be out to get them either.

[SNIP]

Point is, you're the god of your world when you're the GM, but the players are demigods, and a good gaming group will all create the world - and thats fun for everyone. You fight your players, you get unhappy players.

-Don

See, other than some personal observations about the world and its tendency to be out to get ME ;), I think you're misunderstanding me. The world may not be out to get the PCs - and I'd be a crappy GM if I ran it as such - but the monsters (and most of the NPCs) sure as hell are, if for no other reason than the PCs have nice stuff (and are probably trying to kill them). While we may not phrase it as being adversarial, most of a GM's job is just that - playing the adversaries. My point is that, when I'm wearing that hat, I'm going to do it to the best of my ability. If the PCs are invading the lair of a tribe of intelligent humanoids, you can bet your ass that I'll be playing those monsters to the hilt, and they're going to do everything in their power (and with the information they would logically have) to neutralize a threat to their lives and livelihoods - i.e., the PCs. Also, if the PCs are strutting around the city decked out in finery, throwing GPs around, I'd be insulting their intelligence (the players, that is) if every beggar and thief in town didn't have them marked.

I guess it's just a style thing - my players flourish with as much challenge as I can give them. It may be your experience that when you fight your players, you get unhappy players - when I took off the gloves and really went at them, my players told me that they felt like they were earning what they got, and facing real danger, for the first time in years. YMMV.

Ok, I misunderstoody you. Yeah, I do the same - both as GM and player. One reason I like LOTR is that its really about individuals overcomming impossible odds - oh, no, Frodo is trapped in Mordor, who will save him?! Well. Um...theres...his buddy. Who...doesnt have magical powers or ... much of anything other than cooking utensils.
Whereas in Lion, Witch & Wardrobe its like - oh, no, who will save the kids from this awful ...oh, no, wait...theres that white lion...again....deus ex machina...ok, um....never mind. I know they were supposed to be allegorical stories based on the Bible, but I prefer my heros to come through at least every once in a while without divine intervention.

Same problem with Star Trek Next Gen - oh well, if we use a cascading inverse tachyon pulse to interface with this previously unknown alien device we can wrap the show up in...uh...10 minutes, not counting commercials. Make it so!
Whereas in Firefly; a bunch of misfits in an unarmed, antequated freighter with damn near everyone in the 'verse trying to get them dead.

"I've been out of the abbey two days, I've beaten a lawman senseless, I've fallen in with criminals. I watched the captain shoot the man I swore to protect. And I'm not even sure if I think he was wrong. "

"This is the captain, we have a lil' problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence, and then explode. "